Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

Post by Renegadenemo » Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:06 am

surely you see flares going off and you would act ? at very least wake up the radio op and see if there had been any distress calls etc etc
Rockets were used for all sorts of signalling purposes back then and therefore didn't automatically denote distress.
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sheppane
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Cutty Sark

Post by sheppane » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:22 pm

The restored 'Cutty Sark' was unveiled by HM the Queen today at Greenwich.

What a missed opportunity. Hoisting this fine ship up on beams, which run through her hull, just so access could be improved.
Whoever thought that was the best solution should hang their head in shame. For £50m they could have resotored her to full seaworthy order.

Another HLF poloitically correct solution, all in the name of access. It also goes to show they don't mind destruction of fabric when it suits them.

I'm glad they are not in the picture re the resoration of K7
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Cutty Sark

Post by Jordangbr » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:59 pm

They would have put it on the roof of the Ruskin for 'access'.....
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Re: Cutty Sark

Post by Renegadenemo » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:18 pm

I'm glad they are not in the picture re the resoration of K7
They wanted to build the nose from plastic with the sides missing so you could see inside. I remember them as completely and utterly clueless. Not an engineer amongst them.
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Dominic Owen
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Re: Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

Post by Dominic Owen » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:59 pm

I said a little while ago that there had to be a 'Type IV' out there somewhere... It seems this most feared and dreaded extreme of 'bottom-feeder' hasn't been discovered until now because they've all been hidden away, busily destroying an iconic piece of national heritage! :evil:

I suspect, rather strongly, that next on the agenda will be a full re-model of the Houses of Parliament in glass, to stop it from standing out so from the modern developments, and the replacement of the cracked (and, therefore, dangerously faulty) Big Ben with a more soothing electronic chime, limited to 96db in accordance with H&S restrictions.
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Re: Cutty Sark

Post by DamienB » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:26 am

sheppane wrote:The restored 'Cutty Sark' was unveiled by HM the Queen today at Greenwich.

What a missed opportunity. Hoisting this fine ship up on beams, which run through her hull, just so access could be improved.
Whoever thought that was the best solution should hang their head in shame. For £50m they could have resotored her to full seaworthy order.
For £50m they could have built another one and sent it to sea with paying passengers/crew to really demonstrate what it was all about.

After all if the Jubilee Sailing Trust can build the Lord Nelson and Tenacious for a far smaller sum... and the amount of good those guys could do with just a tenth of that amount... makes you weep.
Another HLF poloitically correct solution, all in the name of access. It also goes to show they don't mind destruction of fabric when it suits them.
Bizarre isn't it.

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Re: Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

Post by Renegadenemo » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:55 am

Bizarre isn't it.
More criminal than bizarre... now do you believe me when I say they're clueless? I worked my backside off for four years to try to get them behind the BBP and at the end of it they were even more bamboozled than when they began. I said it then and I stand by it now. I wouldn't trust them to sit the right way around on a toilet seat.
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Dominic Owen
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Re: Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

Post by Dominic Owen » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:20 am

Mike Bull wrote:
Dominic Owen wrote:I said a little while ago that there had to be a 'Type IV' out there somewhere...
:o Nooooo! We've identified a solitary example of a Type III (Hons), but a Type IV is just too scary to contemplate.

The whole Cutty Sark thing is a farce- where has all that money really gone?!
Probably no more than £10m on the ship and the rest into the pockets of consultants.

I think 'Type IV's are probably like bigfoot, with the Cutty Sark being the equivalent of the cast of a rather large footprint.
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Re: Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

Post by Renegadenemo » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:45 pm

Because they told lies about how much wood got burned they mostly forgot to mention salvaging teak from a WWI era shipwreck or buying an old school house in India or Burma or somewhere.

http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2011/10/ ... cutty-sark
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Re: Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

Post by sparkgap » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:40 pm

Dangermouse wrote:I don't see the full reverse/crash stop as likely - Murdoch wasn't that daft, he would have known that not only would it disable the steering but it would also have taken a while for the engines to stop and reverse. A witness reported seeing the telegraphs set to "all stop" on the bridge shortly after, so I'd say it's more likely that he called for "all stop" instead. The rudder would still have responded but Titanic would have begun to slow down. Add misinterpretations by investigators who don't realise that all stop merely means "stop the engines" and you have a tale of a frantic attempt to avoid collision by reversing engines.

There is also the fact that the first most passengers knew was the infamous "like a giant finger drawn along the ship's side" moment of impact. A crash stop would have been a very noisy event with a lot of vibration at such a speed (if it didn't snap the propshafts and wreck the engines), I've experienced similar at harbour speeds on a large ferry before now and you definitely know about it when they reverse engines!

Crashing head-on would probably have left Titanic able to reach New York at the expense of anyone unfortunate enough to be in the stokers quarters in the bow. However, it's so ingrained to avoid obstacles that people will always try to steer around them. The reckoning is that Murdoch came incredibly close to avoiding the collision but mistimed the second turn (to push the stern around and away from the iceberg) by a few seconds.
AIUI one of the 'defects' was the effect of the centre screw on the performance of the rudder, making it less effective. Also this was driven by the turbine using exhaust steam from the two main engines and could only operate in 'forward'. All the fiddling around to shut off steam, reverse etc would have taken time which they didn't have.
Interestingly just finished reading a scifi book called The Company Of The Dead which uses as one of its central themes somebody from the future trying to prevent the tragedy. Some interesting twists ensue!

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