The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

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Renegadenemo
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Renegadenemo » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:37 pm

Hi Bill, instead of making daft comments
You mean the thing about being buzzed by Vulcans and Mossies wasn't your latest offering in a a long line of total fabrications?

Please accept my humblest apologies...
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B if you wanna make a dream reality' Mark Knopfler

redbaron1
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by redbaron1 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:37 pm

[quote="Richie"]Interesting Mike ! I always thought that two engined birds had counter rotating engines for stability, weird seeing both engines in the same rotation ?!

When can we do one of these then ? It's only ply wood after all 8-)



I understand the torque induced as a result contributed to the Mossie's reputation for having quite a fearsome swing on take-off. I believe the problem was also exacerbated by the pilot's angled seating position - which is evident from the video - where the rudder pedals were off-set from the centreline. I think this was why most Mossie pilots were already tour expired multi engine drivers rather than sent straight from the OTU's. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think both of these problems were eradicated with the Hornet, which had no navigator and thus set the pilot's seat on the centreline, and had counter rotating props.

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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Renegadenemo » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:40 pm

I thought all Merlins turn in the same direction - and Griffons go the other way - anyone know why that should be?
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B if you wanna make a dream reality' Mark Knopfler

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Dominic Owen
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Dominic Owen » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:34 am

Renegadenemo wrote:I thought all Merlins turn in the same direction - and Griffons go the other way - anyone know why that should be?
They do: The starboard lump had an extra cog in the reduction gear to reverse the rotation.

There's a project on the go to gather as many surviving Hornet parts as possible and put together a complete aircraft (shades of Baddacooda). I think, to date, they've completed a fully fitted-out cockpit section, complete with fore & aft armour plate.

Having typed that, it then occurred to me that it would probably make sense to find a link for it - http://www.dhhornet50.net/index.php :D
One by one, the penguins are stealing my sanity...

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Mike Bull
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Mike Bull » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:21 am

redbaron1 wrote:the problem was also exacerbated by the pilot's angled seating position - which is evident from the video - where the rudder pedals were off-set from the centreline. I think this was why most Mossie pilots were already tour expired multi engine drivers rather than sent straight from the OTU's.
The late Squadron Leader Jack Currie spoke of this in his book 'Mosquito Victory'- he was a tour expired Lancaster pilot who found himself being trained on Mossies and being warned of the perils of 'bottom effect', caused by the slightly skewed seating position.

(I should think that most Barracuda pilots would have happily taken a bit of 'bottom effect' in place of the multitudes of foibles they had to content with!)

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617 squadron E Easy

Post by polo » Tue May 27, 2014 8:50 pm

Watched the programme What the dambusters did after the dams. There are apparently no 617 Lancasters left existence[according to programme] apart from E Easy which crashed after being shot down after giving the Tirpitz a bit of a pasting.
The plane got shot up and the pilot tried to get here home but ended up flying into neutral Sweden and crash landing. All survived the landing but the Pilot ended up with a dislocated knee cap.
The Pilot made a fire in the plane as per instruction so the Germans couldn't get information from the plane. The fire did little damage.
So out in the wilds of Sweden, is a crashed Lancaster from 617, which due to its difficult to get to location, is a nearly complete [but mashed up] Lanc.
Why can,t she be brought home?? she is a very big part our history.
Restoration Project ??

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rob565uk
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Re: 617 squadron E Easy

Post by rob565uk » Wed May 28, 2014 12:39 am


1 in 10 people understands binary. The other one doesn't

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Mike Bull
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Re: 617 squadron E Easy

Post by Mike Bull » Wed May 28, 2014 7:12 am

I don't know much about this one, though I think that there's far from a whole airframe present. 'Easy-Elsie' has been the subject of long-running discussions on the aviation forums for years, sometimes quite heated- leave it alone, recover it, is there enough to do anything with, would it become a replica, where would you put it, who owns it...

:roll:

kneeslider
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by kneeslider » Fri May 30, 2014 1:51 am

Swinging on take off and the resultant ground loop, has caused many a problem for a novice (and not so novice!) aviator since someone thought that putting great whirling around things on the front of a flying machine.

A pokey tailwheel single, with a narrow undercarriage, and a relatively small rudder/fin area which is positioned relatively close to the centre of gravity (and hence with a small moment arm) will provide all the ingredients for entertaining handling.

Most folk are quite surprised when you tell them that when you have completed all your checks, and are lined up, and ready to go on the end of the runway, that the aircraft doesn't just track straight and true into the distance when you open the throttle all the way, and all you have to do is keep the rudder pointing straight.

Typically, most (but by no means all) aircraft have a prop which rotates clockwise when viewed from the pilot's seat, and if you are in a tailwheel aircraft the prop blade on the right side of the aircraft will have a higher angle of incidence (alpha) than the one on the left, causing an asymetric thrust to the left

The slipstream off the prop will wash over the fuselage, and end up acting more on one side of the fin/rudder than the other. Depending on the length of the fuselage, the airspeed, and the power setting, if you are unlucky, then this might kick the tail out to the right, and of course causes the aircraft to veer left.

When you do get rolling, and have enough air speed, the tail will rise, and that big whirly thing on the front will make its presence felt by acting like a big gyroscope, and try to twist the nose left.

The prop will normally be very inefficient at low air speeds, when you are just starting to roll, and only starts to bite once you get some speed on, when the prop bites, it tries to rotate the whole fuselage around the engine, and since you are still on the ground, and this can't happen, because the ground pushes back, the resultant force once again tries to make the aircraft go left.

Happily, the resultant of all these seperate forces acting on the aeroplane can be delt with by application of right rudder, although the effects of all the above are felt differently at different speeds, and the effectiveness of the rudder will work differently at different air speeds.

Basically, you have to be ready for the swings, and prompt in dealing with them. Some aircraft are so evil in their ground handling that they need a drag of brake at certain phases of takeoff to keep pointing straight.

Thats why when watching most WWII era fighters, you can see the pilot waving the rudder back and forth enthusiastically on take off and landing.

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Renegadenemo
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Renegadenemo » Fri May 30, 2014 10:02 am

An interesting post - thanks for that. Helicopters are as bad at low speeds. The whole airframe is trying to turn in the opposite direction to the main rotors so the tail rotor out on the end of the tail counters it but if the aircraft sinks you pull up on the lever to increase main rotor pitch, which causes more torque reaction so you give it some extra pedal to increase the tail rotor pitch to counter it and the increased drag on the engine makes the aircraft sink and so on. Turn one way and it sinks, turn the other and it climbs so you have to give it more or less lever, and so more or less on the pedals and all of this is without the fact that if you just sit with wings level and the tail rotor countering the torque you will drift to the side so the whole aircraft must be hovered slightly canter over so a small component of the main rotor thrust is used to counter the drift. Watch a heli land and you'll see it touch with the left skid first (usually). I say usually because most rotors go clockwise when viewed from the cockpit but the occasional one goes the other way - the french Squirrel being a good example. Tricky beasts.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B if you wanna make a dream reality' Mark Knopfler

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