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quicksilver-wsr
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Re: Triumph to Tragic in one fell swoop.

Post by quicksilver-wsr » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:43 pm

Should be good for 600 ;)

N.

Techteam
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Re: Triumph to Tragic in one fell swoop.

Post by Techteam » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:53 pm

Why would it get up my nose?

I don't necessarily think driving a WWSR boat is difficult, but, knowing how to react to a dangerous situation or a little experience of what may happen must surely be useful. That old saying ignorance breeds contempt or whatever. I'm also pretty certain that Stewarts military training also makes him an ideal driver/pilot as in a dangerous situation he is trained to follow a procedure specifically to keep him and his machine as safe as possible.

From the very limited knowledge I have even Leo went to some length to get Donald familiar with his father's boat and made sure Tony Fahy used Norman Buckley's boats to familiarize him with higher speed boat handling.

Finally, why straight to attack mode both belittling the achievements of Ted and Stewart and immediately having a go at me. In the past I had a great deal of respect for you and your project, however on reflection reading your posts over the past few days and your behaviour here you reap what you sow.

quicksilver-wsr
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Re: Triumph to Tragic in one fell swoop.

Post by quicksilver-wsr » Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:58 pm

Techteam wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:53 pm
Why would it get up my nose?

I don't necessarily think driving a WWSR boat is difficult, but, knowing how to react to a dangerous situation or a little experience of what may happen must surely be useful. That old saying ignorance breeds contempt or whatever. I'm also pretty certain that Stewarts military training also makes him an ideal driver/pilot as in a dangerous situation he is trained to follow a procedure specifically to keep him and his machine as safe as possible.

From the very limited knowledge I have even Leo went to some length to get Donald familiar with his father's boat and made sure Tony Fahy used Norman Buckley's boats to familiarize him with higher speed boat handling.

Finally, why straight to attack mode both belittling the achievements of Ted and Stewart and immediately having a go at me. In the past I had a great deal of respect for you and your project, however on reflection reading your posts over the past few days and your behaviour here you reap what you sow.
Honestly, I pop out for tea and cakes for my girlfriend's birthday and come back to this :roll:

My original post must have got up your nose to some extent - otherwise, why your sarcastic dig at it?

My original post made a perfectly legitimate point, and you have read an awful lot more into it than is there.

I didn't say driving a WWSR boat was easy. I said Stewart's ability to drive K7 having had no previous powerboating experience debunked the notion that years and years of experience of "reading the water" was a necessary pre-requisite to competence. I'm sure no-one doubts Stewart could have gone even quicker, had circumstances permitted. In spite of which, he joined the ranks of the fastest-ever British powerboaters almost overnight.

Surely that was a compliment to his ability - not me "belittling his achievements," as you very strangely put it.

Please take what I wrote at face-value and do us both a favour. Previous powerboating experience not necessary. It was that simple.

Donald didn't have it, Stewart didn't have it. Malcolm Campbell didn't have it. Neither did John Cobb. The list goes on and on.

Similarly - while we are at it - Donald didn't have motor-racing experience and neither did Richard Noble, yet both broke the World Land Speed Record.

Military training? Did Richard have any?

And is military training the only route to ultra-fast reactions? How many of the current F1 gridsters have a military background?

You are applying very selective arguments to try to invalidate my original observation, which was a perfectly reasonable one.

Incidentally, if you were as you say something of an enthusiast for my project, how come your first - and at that time only - post responding to a post of mine was a negative one? I have posted on here almost 1,100 times. I'm still looking for anything from you on any one of those.

Let's not kid ourselves your views on me and Quicksilver were ever anything but negative ones.

Anyway, I'm sorry it upset you, but I stick to my point that the 'sages' who warned that only powerboaters were worthy candidates for WWSR projects were speaking pure bunkum designed to create an undeserved mystique around what they do and 'lift the ladder' so no-one else can get on it.

Their words didn't wash with me then - and, after Bute, they really shouldn't wash with anybody any more.

Nigel

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Triumph to Tragic in one fell swoop.

Post by Renegadenemo » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:09 pm

Anyway, I'm sorry it upset you, but I stick to my point that the 'sages' who warned that only powerboaters were worthy candidates for WWSR projects were speaking pure bunkum designed to create an undeserved mystique around what they do and 'lift the ladder' so no-one else can get on it.
I'm a little more hesitant on this one. It's a bit like divers. You can go away on your jollies to somewhere warm and come back with a diving ticket for a modest sum. PADI (Pay And Die Immediately - as we used to call it) is the popular one and it really is easy.
What you can't buy is how to use your years of hard won experience to extricate yourself from entanglement, disorientation, equipment failure, someone near you panicking or any other of a myriad life-threatening possibilities.
People have asked me for years if I would pilot K7 and my answer has always been, no way - we'll put the right people in there. Daresay I could have done it and got away with it but that would be foolhardy.
Now how about trying to go where no one has ever gone before in the most dangerous participation sport on the planet. I think I'd have spent every spare moment building my experience.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
If I give one hour of joy
To the boy who’s half a man,
Or the man who’s half a boy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

quicksilver-wsr
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Re: Triumph to Tragic in one fell swoop.

Post by quicksilver-wsr » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:16 pm

Fully agree that the experience would be beneficial, Bill.

Essential? Perhaps even that - but I can't quite go that far.

If the prior-experience box had had to be ticked, Richard would never have got his record and Donald wouldn't have got any of his records at all.

There's probably an argument over nothing here, though, as everyone will have their views pretty much fixed - but on the flip side, if no-one can learn the ropes because they haven't learned the ropes, that's not ideal to my mind at any rate.

Specialism maybe isn't good for the ultimate survival and prosperity of the species.

I guess my point was that Stewart was entirely new to it - it is a boat not a plane after all - and acquitted himself very well. So what price experience.

Nigel

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Triumph to Tragic in one fell swoop.

Post by Renegadenemo » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:05 pm

I guess my point was that Stewart was entirely new to it - it is a boat not a plane after all - and acquitted himself very well. So what price experience.
Have to disagree there. I sat with Stew a good few times as he prepared. I watched him and Ted sift hours of footage and photos and transcripts of Donald's runs and I watched as he adapted his experience as a jet jockey to his planning to be a rookie hydroplane pilot / driver. His experience was transferred across in spades. Everything from writing comprehensive handling notes to checklists to observations on engine handling. It would be like me taking up sailing. Never tried it and a silly pastime if you ask me since the diesel engine was invented but doubtless so many years on boats and in the sea would serve me well.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
If I give one hour of joy
To the boy who’s half a man,
Or the man who’s half a boy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

quicksilver-wsr
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:29 pm

Re: Triumph to Tragic in one fell swoop.

Post by quicksilver-wsr » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:46 pm

Fair points. Noted.

Nigel

Techteam
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Re: Triumph to Tragic in one fell swoop.

Post by Techteam » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:23 pm

Nigel

I'm shocked !! How could you have forgotten me ?? I postponed a 150 mile drive home one evening several years ago to stay and listen to one of your talks which although it started a bit late I did enjoy to some degree. Afterwards I made the effort to seek you out to thank you personally and wish you the best in your endeavours, I cannot believe you don't remember. So my first comment all that time ago was in fact positive and since then I have carefully read and absorbed most of your posts and followed the website but didn't feel the need to comment as you seemed to be doing the best job you could with what was available to you . I suspect that over the years you have had to listen to many self styled WWSR experts who have said you would not succeed due to your lack of experience and that has lead you to form your current opinion but I'm sure when the time comes the right advice, from the right people may be of help to you.

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Canopener Al
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Re: Triumph to Tragic in one fell swoop.

Post by Canopener Al » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:10 am

In my humble opinion, I cannot see what the problem is with people on Bill's choice of K7 Drivers. Ted had a skill set that was suitable for being lead driver. Stew is a highly experinced Fast Jet driver, holding the skill set that is excellent for development work and of course operates gas turbines on a day to day basis. A blend of experince that working together that is what I would chose and of course has proved to be highly effective on Bute.

Well done all on the BBP.

quicksilver-wsr
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Re: Triumph to Tragic in one fell swoop.

Post by quicksilver-wsr » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:13 am

Techteam,

I apologise to you, unreservedly. By now you will have realised that I am over-defensive in some situations.

You will have to remind me in more detail - by PM, if you would - of the circumstances you have just outlined. Please bear in mind that I do a fairly large number of talks up and down the country, and I can't associate you with one of them if I don't know which talk it was, and in which year.

For now, I hope my humble apology is enough. Clearly, I have misjudged you and am in the wrong.

Nigel

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