Return to the Water

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Malcolm Ops
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Malcolm Ops » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:34 pm

Renegadenemo wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:25 pm
It's all a bit academic because ............. the LDNPA would scupper them anyway.
.... and throwing an extra 31 of their stakeholders in the way that we are supposed to deal with does not bode well...
The LDNPA manage Coniston Water, so they control what can take place on it, but the Byelaws guide what can take place at speeds above 10mph. The 31 stakeholders identified by the LDNPA, of which 21 are "regularly and routinely consulted with regard to management issues on Coniston Water", include Coniston Parish Council [CPC] (and there are six (6) other Councils in the list too). I have not seen any 'weighting score' to suggest one group is superior to another, so what the CPC says seems to matter.
Malcolm Ops

Derby, England

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Renegadenemo » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:46 am

Here's a question, Malcolm...

There's currently two impediments to Bluebird'd long awaited return to the lake. One is Coniston where all of our efforts to help over the past decade have fallen on deaf ears and now the job is too big for them in one lump when it ought to have been broken into bite-size pieces over many years. And the other is the Limitless Department of National Parochial Attitudes who once declared that they 'wanted' Bluebird then moved the goalposts at the last and are now bent on extreme arse-covering measures.

The hurdles re immense - almost insurmountable at this time, but...

Just suppose that Coniston woke up tomorrow suddenly realising the vast opportunity they stand to inherit if only for the application of some superhuman effort, cohesion and proactive work, not to mention their responsibility to the rest of a region that would doubtless like to benefit too, and they simply told the bureaucrats - listen, this is what's going to happen, this is when it's happening and you can like it or lump it!

Give them a fair bit of notice, I mean, the earliest we could possibly be ready is Aug 19 but the village couldn't. With the best will in the world they have a couple of years of planning ahead of them now to do this thing justice, so the BBP could get the boat about there then have a year working with the village to bash together a homecoming worthy of all our hard work whilst the Bureaucrats would have enough time to come to terms with their predicament.

My question is this - if the LDNPA decided to thwart the effort - and how catastrophic would that be for them! What exactly could they do about it?

Of course, in this scenario, we must assume that their 31 stakeholders also see the incoming, long-term benefits of thousands of kids saying, Mummy/Daddy, can we go to Coniston? (as mine do) for many years to come, and also turn the tables on the bureaucrats.

Never happen, I know... to achieve such results you need to be a tiny Scottish isle in the middle of the Clyde.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
If I give one hour of joy
To the boy who’s half a man,
Or the man who’s half a boy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

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Engine 711
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Engine 711 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:39 pm

From BBC News, re LDNPA - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-43767068

Seems the LDNPA has a few problems.

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Renegadenemo » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:17 pm

Their biggest problem seems to be that either they actually have no authority whatsoever, or, if they do, they don't have the balls to wield it.
Same thing at the end of the day, which is why it's so unlikely they'll ever sort themselves out to the point where Bluebird can actually run on Coniston Water and the worst of that is that we'll likely get the blame!

PS - you might've used a pic of the rebuilt piston pump rather than it's scruffy, as-recovered self.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
If I give one hour of joy
To the boy who’s half a man,
Or the man who’s half a boy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

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Engine 711
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Engine 711 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:28 pm

Re PS. If you send me a newer pic, I will.... ;)

Malcolm Ops
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Malcolm Ops » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:02 pm

Renegadenemo wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:46 am
Here's a question, Malcolm...

Just suppose that Coniston woke up tomorrow suddenly realising the vast opportunity they stand to inherit if only for the application of some superhuman effort, cohesion and proactive work, not to mention their responsibility to the rest of a region that would doubtless like to benefit too, and they simply told the bureaucrats - listen, this is what's going to happen, this is when it's happening and you can like it or lump it!

Give them a fair bit of notice, I mean, the earliest we could possibly be ready is Aug 19 but the village couldn't. With the best will in the world they have a couple of years of planning ahead of them now to do this thing justice, so the BBP could get the boat about there then have a year working with the village to bash together a homecoming worthy of all our hard work whilst the Bureaucrats would have enough time to come to terms with their predicament.

My question is this - if the LDNPA decided to thwart the effort - and how catastrophic would that be for them! What exactly could they do about it?
I seem to have missed this question.

The LDNPA can 'stop' the Proving Trial of K7 from being held under the byelaw, by just saying "we do not give our permission". The 10mph speed limit would then continue to apply as it does to all powered craft on that body of water. If the LDNPA got wind of a 'homecoming' event their boating staff might have to physically obstruct any launch at 'their' slipway. They may have the police present to prevent any 'breach of the peace. [However, the Park Ranger on another FB page did say the LDNPA could not stand in the way of sub 10mph operation of any boat]. What a PR disaster any obstructive action would be in front of the World's media.

I think we could secure a private launching position on the lake shore to circumvent any use of the LDNPA slipway, but that 'compromises' the return of the craft in operating condition to where she was recovered/removed in 2001. Oh, I forgot ............ folk want to see compromises from the BBP now.

I feel sure the elected representatives of Coniston village would not give their support to any breaking of the Coniston Water byelaw on speed. Therefore the group telling the bureaucrats about the village hosting a worthy homecoming 'trial' for K7 is not likely to occur.

That leaves the BBP to go it alone - have you dates in mind for this 'festival event' Bill? [Hmm ....... who is going to organise and manage the proceedings?]
Malcolm Ops

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Renegadenemo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:48 am

That leaves the BBP to go it alone - have you dates in mind for this 'festival event' Bill? [Hmm ....... who is going to organise and manage the proceedings?]
What we need is some resourceful folks with a great sense of mischief. Launching undetected from a wagon with a good Hiab at 03:00am would be simple from many locations around the lake.
Can you Imagine, the good folks on Bute found us a wagon with a crane that can lift 3 tons at 60ft so they could get us to their Highland games, so that's getting on the water sorted.
A few mixed-gas-rebreather divers disguised as canoeists to rig a camouflaged shelter complete with fuel and compressed air in one of the many reed beds until daybreak would be useful (these are simply the most resourceful folks ever to get wet and so can do anything) and we'd be off soon as the sun came up. I reckon we'd get in four runs before the LDNPA officers with their degrees in urban sustainability were reduced to quivering wrecks and either overdosed on Prozac or admitted to psychiatric wards across the county and by that time we'd be craned back out of the water and halfway home. The media are our friends so they'd love it too.

Anyone up for this?
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
If I give one hour of joy
To the boy who’s half a man,
Or the man who’s half a boy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

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midlife
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by midlife » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:05 am

Count me in Bill
Cheers
Wayne


.

Malcolm Ops
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Malcolm Ops » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:41 am

Renegadenemo wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:48 am
What we need is some resourceful folks with a great sense of mischief. The media are our friends so they'd love it too. Anyone up for this?
Mischief at a cost - shall I hold the bag with the 'fine' money ready to hand over to the representative of the LDNPA - as that would cut out any need to involve the law and the Courts??
Malcolm Ops

Derby, England

polo
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by polo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:32 pm

Malcolm, I am sure you are aware of my past employment ! I can come up with many ways of causing problems LEGALLY! For those worried re the threat of arrest for the dreaded offence of 'Breach of the Peace', well put that into the furthest part of your mind.The arrest has many legalities that have to be met before arrest / detention can be made[ and the number of cameras running providing 3rd party evidence]. Even if you are arrested, when you are removed from the scene and promise not to return then you should be released. IF the CPS [Can't Prosecute Service] authorise charge, then its to the first court and the ONLY penalty is a 'Bind over to keep the Peace' IF the 'offence is proven[unlikely] THERE IS NO FINE ! There is NO imprisonment!

I doubt the Police would fancy arresting 50 people, they wouldn't have enough officers or cell space! The custody Sergeant[s] would have a blue fit.

If you launch from a private site with permission of the landowner [ secure the permission in writing with the caveat that the project members and invited friends are the only persons allowed to be present] then any person on that land without permission [including Police !] who try to stop a lawful act, commits the dreaded BOP![ ANY person may arrest any person found committing this offence, not just Police]they could also commit certain CRIMINAL offences that carry Prison sentences.
I believe the main problem in launching would be the boats registration for use on the lake and the display of such registration numbers. This would be covered by local bye laws and penalties which I am not familiar with.The Rangers / Police could deal with this.
I doubt that the situation would get anywhere close to such actions from either side, as the publicity would be a killer. I believe offers of 'compromise' would be made and accepted.
I am sorry the situation has got to this point. I understand why the authorities have made their present stance and I just wish they could explain their problems instead of keeping quiet.

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