Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Ernie Lazenby

Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by Ernie Lazenby » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:30 am

Sorry but that does not really add up. Conflicts with recent comments in public from the project. The issue of the Ruskin situation may be different to the problem with the LDNPA but is of real concern to readers.

There might just be an elephant in the room; the wording of the request for funds could be taken as misleading, note I have said could. From what I have picked up on social media, as fed to me by others, to some people that matter is of concern. That said the amount of information put out on this forum and in the press by the project since the original request clearly demonstrates what such funds are being/are going to be used for. In light of that changing information anyone who felt they contributed because they were misled ought to have taken issue at that time and asked for their money back. In that respect the elephant leaves the room.
The latest request to raise another £10,000 clearly says why the project needs the money- depleted funds because of the Bute trip. Perfectly proper request no ambiquity there.
Last edited by Ernie Lazenby on Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sam_68
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Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by Sam_68 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:35 am

Mike Bull wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:15 am
The people at the museum have known for years that the boat WILL ultimately be displayed there...
So, for the record, you are confirming on behalf of BBP that K7 will be handed over to the Ruskin museum in due course?

No ifs, no buts, not conditions or strings attached?

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by Renegadenemo » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:41 am

Oooh - properly put the cat amongst the pigeons this time, I did.

The only broken promise is that of Coniston to organise a homecoming event befitting all our hard work and celebrating the rebirth of K7. We're still waiting.

Ownership - as I said to Gina, you don't own such an object, you can merely be its custodian while you're able, like a house or classic car. Bluebird is a national treasure and I would argue that she's best managed by those who can give the most back to the nation.

We have told the museum for many years that K7 will only be displayed there once terms are agreed for getting her back out when necessary so the ball is in their court.
So, for the record, you are confirming on behalf of BBP that K7 will be handed over to the Ruskin museum in due course?

No ifs, no buts, not conditions or strings attached?
See above - she will be displayed there should the museum get its act together but there will be many strings attached. That machine will not be wheeled in, the doors locked behind her and that's that. Hands up anyone who wants to see that happen.

Times change, opinions change and what is in the best interests change and when Gina said the boat was too young to be locked away in a crusty old museum, that she should go on tour and that everyone should see her, she was absolutely right and you'll look a long way to find anyone who thinks otherwise.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

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Ernie Lazenby

Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by Ernie Lazenby » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:43 am

Sam_68 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:35 am
Mike Bull wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:15 am
The people at the museum have known for years that the boat WILL ultimately be displayed there...
So, for the record, you are confirming on behalf of BBP that K7 will be handed over to the Ruskin museum in due course?

No ifs, no buts, not conditions or strings attached?
perhaps you should have included the words 'and its future use controlled by the Ruskin trust'

Sam_68
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Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by Sam_68 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:45 am

Renegadenemo wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:41 am
So, for the record, you are confirming on behalf of BBP that K7 will be handed over to the Ruskin museum in due course?

No ifs, no buts, not conditions or strings attached?
See above - she will be displayed there should the museum get its act together but there will be many strings attached.
So that's a no, then?

Keeping your promises if you feel like it doesn't count, I'm afraid.

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rich1608
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Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by rich1608 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:55 am

I hope an agreement with the Ruskin can be reached which will allow the boat to be taken out at any time for demonstrations, touring, maintenance or whatever. If it can't, is there anywhere else in Coniston where the boat can live when not in use? If there isn't, and her 'base' ends up being somewhere else, Skiper and boat won't stay together and that would be quite unfortunate to say the least.

I agree entirely with what Gina says about showing K7 to the world and not locked away in a museum to gather dust. We can't ask Donald for his opinion but what his daughter says must surely be the best alternative. I look forward to seeing K7 on Dumbleyung again in the future.

Ernie Lazenby

Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by Ernie Lazenby » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:03 am

Bill said 'Ownership - as I said to Gina, you don't own such an object, you can merely be its custodian while you're able, like a house or classic car. Bluebird is a national treasure and I would argue that she's best managed by those who can give the most back to the nation'.

That's quite interesting. All property is owned by someone/organisation. K3 Bluebird, CN7 and many other iconic properties are owned. Bluebird is no more of a national treasure than many other objects. Courts dealing with property disputes award ownership based on the facts/documents available and when a decision is made 'legal title' is awarded. Someone somewhere owns property even pebbles on a Devon beach!(recent prosecution)

From the information in the public domain the CFHT through Ms Campbell handed ownership to the Ruskin with the BB project volunteering to restore her. If that is indeed correct then this is all very simple, the Ruskin museum trust are the legal owners of K7 Bluebird. If the trust has neither the inclination or funds to pursue that then that's up to them. Whilst Ms Campbell has a moral right to express opinions/ interest in what happens to K7 if she passed over ownership her right to dictate/direct what happens to the boat was given away.

Putting this into a nutshell - if The Ruskin trust were to say its our boat, assuming it is, we want it back and don't want it taken all over the place what would happen next?

Hampsters in wheels springs to mind.
Last edited by Ernie Lazenby on Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

ace_chris
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Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by ace_chris » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:36 am

Be interesting to read what the break/termination clauses in the contract are? Have you seen a copy Ernie?

Ernie Lazenby

Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by Ernie Lazenby » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:40 am

I said. ' From the information in the public domain the CFHT through Ms Campbell handed ownership to the Ruskin'

Contracts if indeed one exists are not in the public domain. One can only read what's publically available.

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by Renegadenemo » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:04 pm

So that's a no, then?

Keeping your promises if you feel like it doesn't count, I'm afraid.
'fraid you've missed something important here. When the decision was taken in November 2002 to build a fully operable machine we announced that this came with an ongoing responsibility to maintain the systems. The museum has known since the very conception of the project that we would need a deal to be able to get the boat out periodically for anti-deterioration measures and these have been discussed and agreed with our aerospace, materials and surface coating partners in detail over the years. After all, we can't really run or even wet-crank the engine indoors. So the museum and presumably the wider community has known an operable machine came with strings attached from the outset.
Then a certain Type III attempted to alter the donation agreement for his own ends so it then became prudent to safeguard against such unsavoury challenges in the future and now Gina has decided the boat should be toured and that has altered the landscape once more but don't for a moment think that there was ever any promise to hand over all our hard work without strings attached because there never was.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B if you wanna make a dream reality' Mark Knopfler

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