Coniston - Spiritual Home?

rich1608
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Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by rich1608 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:55 am

I hope an agreement with the Ruskin can be reached which will allow the boat to be taken out at any time for demonstrations, touring, maintenance or whatever. If it can't, is there anywhere else in Coniston where the boat can live when not in use? If there isn't, and her 'base' ends up being somewhere else, Skiper and boat won't stay together and that would be quite unfortunate to say the least.

I agree entirely with what Gina says about showing K7 to the world and not locked away in a museum to gather dust. We can't ask Donald for his opinion but what his daughter says must surely be the best alternative. I look forward to seeing K7 on Dumbleyung again in the future.

Ernie Lazenby
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Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by Ernie Lazenby » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:03 am

Bill said 'Ownership - as I said to Gina, you don't own such an object, you can merely be its custodian while you're able, like a house or classic car. Bluebird is a national treasure and I would argue that she's best managed by those who can give the most back to the nation'.

That's quite interesting. All property is owned by someone/organisation. K3 Bluebird, CN7 and many other iconic properties are owned. Bluebird is no more of a national treasure than many other objects. Courts dealing with property disputes award ownership based on the facts/documents available and when a decision is made 'legal title' is awarded. Someone somewhere owns property even pebbles on a Devon beach!(recent prosecution)

From the information in the public domain the CFHT through Ms Campbell handed ownership to the Ruskin with the BB project volunteering to restore her. If that is indeed correct then this is all very simple, the Ruskin museum trust are the legal owners of K7 Bluebird. If the trust has neither the inclination or funds to pursue that then that's up to them. Whilst Ms Campbell has a moral right to express opinions/ interest in what happens to K7 if she passed over ownership her right to dictate/direct what happens to the boat was given away.

Putting this into a nutshell - if The Ruskin trust were to say its our boat, assuming it is, we want it back and don't want it taken all over the place what would happen next?

Hampsters in wheels springs to mind.
Last edited by Ernie Lazenby on Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

ace_chris
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Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by ace_chris » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:36 am

Be interesting to read what the break/termination clauses in the contract are? Have you seen a copy Ernie?

Ernie Lazenby
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Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by Ernie Lazenby » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:40 am

I said. ' From the information in the public domain the CFHT through Ms Campbell handed ownership to the Ruskin'

Contracts if indeed one exists are not in the public domain. One can only read what's publically available.

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by Renegadenemo » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:04 pm

So that's a no, then?

Keeping your promises if you feel like it doesn't count, I'm afraid.
'fraid you've missed something important here. When the decision was taken in November 2002 to build a fully operable machine we announced that this came with an ongoing responsibility to maintain the systems. The museum has known since the very conception of the project that we would need a deal to be able to get the boat out periodically for anti-deterioration measures and these have been discussed and agreed with our aerospace, materials and surface coating partners in detail over the years. After all, we can't really run or even wet-crank the engine indoors. So the museum and presumably the wider community has known an operable machine came with strings attached from the outset.
Then a certain Type III attempted to alter the donation agreement for his own ends so it then became prudent to safeguard against such unsavoury challenges in the future and now Gina has decided the boat should be toured and that has altered the landscape once more but don't for a moment think that there was ever any promise to hand over all our hard work without strings attached because there never was.
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Sam_68
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Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by Sam_68 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:14 pm

Renegadenemo wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:04 pm
...don't for a moment think that there was ever any promise to hand over all our hard work without strings attached because there never was.
Then why did you publish the statement that I linked above, which is still there for all to see, on your website?

Can you comment on Ernie's assertion that actual, legal ownership of the boat was handed by the CFHT to the Ruskin.

Ownership is usually quite straightforward: either you own something, or you don't.

If K7's ownership was, or is, disputed, surely that is something that you had a moral, if not legal, obligation to make clear to prospective donors to the project?

Ernie Lazenby
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Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by Ernie Lazenby » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:17 pm

Bill please just put a stop to all this by answering the question fundamental to this and other threads. Surely you of all people must know;

Who in law, that is has 'legal title', owns K7 Bluebird? Is it the Ruskin Museum Trust, The Campbell family heritage trust, the Bluebird project or Ms Campbell.

Until that is dealt with the hamster keeps the wheel turning.

conistoncollie
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Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by conistoncollie » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:19 pm

Then why did you publish the statement that I linked above, which is still there for all to see, on your website?
to ensure the successful completion of this project and the return of Donald Campbell’s iconic boat to her spiritual home in Coniston, Cumbria, England.
I keep hearing this, Coniston - spiritual home thing and I'm sorry, I just don't buy it.
Fair question

Ernie Lazenby
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Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by Ernie Lazenby » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:20 pm

Bill said 'Then a certain Type III attempted to alter the donation agreement for his own ends'

Therein are two useful pieces of information, (I) there was a donation agreement originally. (2)the identity of the type111 person thus becomes clear.

SteveHunt
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Re: Coniston - Spiritual Home?

Post by SteveHunt » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:38 pm

"Until that is dealt with the hamster keeps the wheel turning."

more like the hamster wheel keeps on being spun by someone who plainly has not an awful lot left constructively to do with his time, bar constantly needling those who have made more positive contributions to this piece of British history than he has.

Dont you ever give it a rest, Ernie? What skin do you have in the game exactly, for you to be so constantly, forensically interested in this one factor that you personally have nothing to do with?

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