Coniston Bye laws/Ruskin

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Coniston Bye laws/Ruskin

Post by Renegadenemo »

Our friends on Bute have started a small petition to get K7 operational again. We know it's what everyone wants to see so here's a way to be counted. Please sign and share.

https://www.change.org/p/ruskin-museum- ... -the-water
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

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Healey nut
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Re: Coniston Bye laws/Ruskin

Post by Healey nut »

The thing is Bill .....
The people of Bute “get it “
How much did the local economy benefit from K7 being there on the Loch , hotels , guest houses ,B&Bs ,restaurants ,Pubs , petrol stations etc etc etc ......All that money injected into the local economy all courtesy of the “the big tin boat” and its historical appeal .
Grown men standing in tears as K7 fired up and rocketed down the Loch , people standing for hours hoping to get wet from the jet wash and to smell the kerosine , small children and school kids in awe at the sight of that huge blue jet boat .
That was all down to the the BBP team and their dedication to the cause , together with the people of Bute who got their collective S&@t together to organize the event .

The Ruskin muppets have their collective heads up their proverbial rear ends and can’t see the forest for the trees . They probably couldn’t organize a rota for a two hole outdoor Sh*thouse . 8-)
Thats not an oil leak , its my patent pending Old British Sports Car rustproofing system . :mrgreen:
JfromJAGs
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Re: Coniston Bye laws/Ruskin

Post by JfromJAGs »

Renegadenemo wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:09 pm 'We might allow you but it's all subject to what our committee decides'.
When I hear people saying such things then my alarm bell rings. "Oh, I personally would like this, but a higher force doesn't let me do it - I'm so sorry..." They are trying to hide behind a "higher force" and do not take responsibility for what they are doing, because usually these same people are part of the "higher force". So it's a dumb trick to fool others. Ok, find someone else to fool. It's a game. They clearly need to send someone else who takes responsibility.

To me it looks like the museum trust is overstrained with the gift they got from the Campbell family trust. Same applies probably for the Campbell family as well. That's probably another reason why everyone left K7 in the depths of the lake. Sure, they all like to have the restored boat sit (dead) in the museum wing, maybe they'd even like to watch the boat run, but for everything else it looks to me as if they are missing your power, passion, dedication and also resources. Right now I doubt the museum (or the event group) is able to organise a "home comming" event - considering all what's involved with such an event. So what looks like a win-win situation for you might look different for them - because they know they can't keep your pace. Maybe think about that.

Would it help to go back to a very basic plan? Like forgetting about the world wide travels with K7 and also nation wide exhibitions (at least for now and until everyone feels good about it)? Would it also be ok to run K7 once a year - or even every 2 years? Maybe have the (or one of the) engine(s) run a couple time a year and then leave K7 most of the time in the museum? I mean go back to a minimal plan which doesn't overstress anyone involved?

And, now that K7 had been run on Bute, would it be possible to come up with a time schedule of how much work needs to be done and how long this would take? I totally understood your attitude during the restoration - "it takes however long it takes" - but I think some kind of a remaing time schedule would help with an agreement. Even if this schedule is 2-3 years long and has one or even more team trails on Bute (or elsewhere). Everyone expects the runs on Coniston Water to be perfect - so this needs adequate preparation - this must be clear to everyone.

Last, I believe any event on Coniston Water needs quite a lot of help during organising from the BBP - not saying you need to do it all, but a lot. Having the museum (or an event group) organise everything and then show up like a Rock Star won't work. I believe it will only work if all available forces are joined together - of course - and after the world has fought CoVid-19 successfully.

I hope the latter will happen quite soon, because then we can come up North, let some boats run (big and small), have some beer and a natter.

BR,
Joerg
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Renegadenemo
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Re: Coniston Bye laws/Ruskin

Post by Renegadenemo »

The Ruskin muppets have their collective heads up their proverbial rear ends and can’t see the forest for the trees . They probably couldn’t organize a rota for a two hole outdoor Sh*thouse . 8-)
That was just funny - the target is irrelevant. Going to borrow that one.
To me it looks like the museum trust is overstrained with the gift they got from the Campbell family trust. Same applies probably for the Campbell family as well. That's probably another reason why everyone left K7 in the depths of the lake. Sure, they all like to have the restored boat sit (dead) in the museum wing, maybe they'd even like to watch the boat run, but for everything else it looks to me as if they are missing your power, passion, dedication and also resources. Right now I doubt the museum (or the event group) is able to organise a "home comming" event - considering all what's involved with such an event. So what looks like a win-win situation for you might look different for them - because they know they can't keep your pace. Maybe think about that.
Wise words and you're absolutely right but we have tried in two ways to deal with that problem. In the fist instance we have offered for many years to do all the hard work. We offered to build a website when the museum didn't have one, we offered to set up their online shop. We offered to do anything we could and our Ops' man, Malcolm even attended every BEWG meeting for ten years despite not living anywhere near but with little result. We begged, cajoled and encouraged from the get-go and seeing as it took us 15 years to build a boat that would run there was ample time to get up what would have been a very gentle learning curve. We have pointed out for many years that there is thorough preparedness for mountain rescue or floods but zero preparedness for dealing with an operable boat and the team who runs her.

So - having realised a long time ago that things were not going to plan we basically said, OK, we'll do everything, just leave us to run the show and we've tried our best but even that has its limits and we have made the point many times that we can bring the boat and crews, divers, medics, marshalls, etc. but we can't just take over the place and start closing roads or letting people park in fields. We would need some assistance. The alternative to all of this is that the idea of running on Coniston is simply abandoned and we run elsewhere and just display in the museum when not running so several options have been tried to circumvent the problems you describe. There is no question that the public want to see the same as us - the best of both worlds, K7 on water and in the museum - and we're willing to put in all the hard work to provide that so why hang about? It really is not fair to delay that process when it can so easily be achieved.
And, now that K7 had been run on Bute, would it be possible to come up with a time schedule of how much work needs to be done and how long this would take? I totally understood your attitude during the restoration - "it takes however long it takes" - but I think some kind of a remaing time schedule would help with an agreement.
We've already said we have about 12 months work to turn out a finished boat fit for display and running and there would be a lead-time on that while we ramped up other elements of the project so say 18 months. Considering it's 2 years since we last ran and it feels like yesterday it's not a bad time frame.
Last, I believe any event on Coniston Water needs quite a lot of help during organising from the BBP - not saying you need to do it all, but a lot. Having the museum (or an event group) organise everything and then show up like a Rock Star won't work. I believe it will only work if all available forces are joined together - of course - and after the world has fought CoVid-19 successfully.

I hope the latter will happen quite soon, because then we can come up North, let some boats run (big and small), have some beer and a natter.
When the event on Coniston was announced for 2019 we really went for it. We were there within days with divers on the slipway measuring water depth and angles to see if we could launch. We went out in a boat with a GPS and surveyed the course, we met with the Park Authority about siting a boat shed and how to launch and recover without causing inconvenience to other lake users. We recruited and started training safety divers, medics, fire-chase personnel and a host of others. We began working on the boat and ground support equipment to employ lessons learned on Bute and we submitted a 32 page planning document to the LDNPA as soon as we could to maximise the time available for fine tuning. We booked accommodation and organised leave then it was cancelled without explanation. What else could we possibly have done?

The best way forward from here, so far as we see it, is for the museum to put their best team forward to work with us starting right now and we crack on running a second crew training exercise, which we need anyway plus it's a Coniston event in perfect miniature. That way the museum team could work alongside us, pick our brains, shortcut the learning and get much valuable experience of putting together such an event that they can take straight to the bank. That way they could start work on their own event immediately and have us on hand to help wherever possible. We could then come off the water with both crew and machine fighting fit and spend the time up to the Coniston event all working together because by then we'd be one team and in the midst of that we'd all gain a better appreciation of one another and doubtless agree a deal for the future along the way just because we would. That way we could come off the water in Coniston and into the museum with everyone happy with a job well done.

Now we would go for that, no problem - but it needs the museum to engage with us and get stuck in.

Let's see what the powers in Bute say.
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Richie
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Re: Coniston Bye laws/Ruskin

Post by Richie »

I can vouch for the training, Sally, the selected divers, sponsors and myself trudged up to St Abb’s to work with the life boat team, we had a day on the water and in the lifeboat centre, we had recruited well known safety divers and even paramedics, dive medics and a member of the fire service. Attended events at the NEC to obtain sponsorship for safety equipment, recovery equipment and even training venue’s... we were even prepping up a mock cockpit for casualty extrication drills !

Lots of time and personal expense to have the rug pulled without a rationale.

Going forwards I fear anything we tried to put in place to run at Coniston would be frustrated, impeded and deliberately derailed at every opportunity by those who are so target fixed on bringing harm to the BBP, for the handful of individuals in question it is no longer about a great man and his hydroplane, it’s about point scoring.... The litany of false twitter accounts to the same IP’s from the same towns / villages of the UK are a testament to this...


The two current owners of K7 (Ruskin and BBP) need to get their collective heads together without the “outside influences” and come up with something “out of this world” if K7 is to see the light of day again.


In the meantime I will continue to uphold my part of the bargain by working on K7’s systems and restoration work...all be it presently quietly to one side in my little corner.
"You can screw a man down until he takes to drinking......take me to the fantastic place..."
JfromJAGs
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Re: Coniston Bye laws/Ruskin

Post by JfromJAGs »

Sure, by reading here I can only listen to one side of the story and by meeting you guys on Bute I might also be a little biased towards the BBP as well, but really trying to be neutral I have very little understanding for what's going on the other side. And whenever people post here from that side, I can't follow their way of thinking - whereas all the things you guys say sounds very reasonable, knowledged and right to me.

I think I asked this before - do you have such people as mediators in the UK? Maybe a celibrity from motor sports? The Queen? Or someone from TV who would make a TV show from the story - how we brought back K7 on the water and into the museum. There must be some more reasonably thinking people left on earth.

BR,
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Renegadenemo
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Re: Coniston Bye laws/Ruskin

Post by Renegadenemo »

Sure, by reading here I can only listen to one side of the story and by meeting you guys on Bute I might also be a little biased towards the BBP as well, but really trying to be neutral I have very little understanding for what's going on the other side. And whenever people post here from that side, I can't follow their way of thinking - whereas all the things you guys say sounds very reasonable, knowledged and right to me.
What you see is what you get with us, Joerg. And it really is just as it appears and it is beyond the understanding of one and all. We strove to run the perfect project, worked at boardroom level with major sponsors, took a running boat back onto the water after 51 years and 15 years of dedicated rebuild to have our efforts widely acclaimed. We operated professionally and safely and our hosts on Bute benefited hugely whilst having no complaints and we're still here, the same team with the same aspirations and yet a handful of individuals with plenty to gain are sitting in silence, forcing delays on proceedings and in so-doing are depriving the public and enthusiasts alike of what they'd like to see. It's beyond mind-boggling.

As for mediators - yes we have them and I've been involved in a couple of mediations. It's dull, tedious and very expensive by the time you take your lawyers and counsel and set their meters ticking. There are easier ways.
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Orchard
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Re: Coniston Bye laws/Ruskin

Post by Orchard »

You can only assume that Ruskin are now worried that they don’t have the capabilities to even do the minimum required. Or simply they CBA
Last edited by Orchard on Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coniston Bye laws/Ruskin

Post by Jordangbr »

Joerg hopefully we will be to meet up on Bute for a few beers and watch the big tin boat fly again.
Just promise no more air raids on our tea tent....
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Re: Coniston Bye laws/Ruskin

Post by Renegadenemo »

Joerg hopefully we will be to meet up on Bute for a few beers and watch the big tin boat fly again.
Just promise no more air raids on our tea tent....
For those unfamiliar with that shining moment in Anglo-German relations we were visited on Bute by Joerg and two of his high speed model enthusiast mates whose names (much to my embarrassment) have slipped my memory.

'Aye up, Kraftwerk's arrived...' was the first I knew.

We invited them into the boat shed sop they could investigate K7's planing surfaces - this being something very dear to their hearts then later on they joined us in the back bar of the Bull for a few beers and a good laugh.

It was a couple of days later after our soggy day at Mountstuart House that we returned to the boat shed to find that our tea tent had collapsed under the weight of rainwater and we had nowhere to brew up.

'Ze tea tent is kaputt!' someone announced and that was it.

Ze Germans have sabotaged ze tea tent to stop ze Britishers...

Nein, ve had no part in destroying your tea tent!

Our German mates strenuously denied the charge and the argument raged 'til we all dissolved into helpless laughter before setting-to with tie-wraps and gaffer tape to put the roof back on the tea tent because its destruction really had brought the Britishers to a standstill.

They were very happy days and we look forward to seeing you guys again soon.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B if you wanna make a dream reality' Mark Knopfler
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