Bute / Coniston Back to Back

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Post by Renegadenemo »

Yep . Gina has zero credibility after her last episode .
Sadly, I can't really argue with that. I speak to a LOT of people about Bluebird stuff and that is the general consensus. There's the occasional one who remain adamant that she can do no wrong and that's their opinion but it's not widely held.

There was one especially revolting episode where Gina alleged that I had said something along the lines of 'Campbell is yesterday's man, we are the new guard', or some such. What I was actually trying to explain was that as DMC passes from living memory and we ran a big blue jet-powered monster there was a whole new generation coming to the story but from the point of view of boat first, Campbell second, that times they were a-changing.
I suspect that most, if not all, of the youngsters who watched K7 running on Bute neither knew nor cared who used to drive it. Ted or Stew climbing out in their racing overalls and crash helmet was enough for them so this shift in perception was going to require an equal shift in how the story was told and this morphed into, 'Campbell is yesterday's man', etc.
If you don't move with the times you get left behind so having proved that K7 would run, the 'crusty old museum' attitude was the right one (not that the wing is crusty or old - it's a nice space) because the underlying sentiment was that K7 should be alive and out there running rather than home-ported and gathering dust. The times had changed from us lot beavering away in K7's workshop to now we had something very special that people were likening to Concorde and the Vulcan - something equally iconic to pick up their mantle. Then what - a total change of face to 'get it in the museum now or I'll stamp my feet'. It wasn't a clever move and, as you say, credibility zero after that.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

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Engine 711
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Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Post by Engine 711 »

Trying to take a broader view, of the whole current problem.

Like any successful negotiation, there would need to be roughly equal 'wins' and 'losses' on both sides. Similar to buying a 2nd hand car - meeting somewhere in the middle. Gina would need to move toward the BBP, in some way - as would the RM. And (ideally..) the BBP would need to move towards Gina & the RM.

At present, both Gina & the RM have stepped firmly away from their previous positions. They have both changed - whereas (IMHO) the BBP have been consistent - and stayed where they were.

Gina could be the solution, here - IF she has it in her, to re-think. Perhaps that means her falling out with some people close to her.....?

The RM could also move their position - but its I think 6 individuals involved - the Trustees...? I would hope there is a range of opinion present, within them...? But, perhaps its 1 or 2 of them, who are firmly stuck in their corners...?


I know the outcome I want. K7 - runable - and based in Coniston.
nickfire
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Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Post by nickfire »

Bill, has Gina not been in touch to explain things since her speech at the RM?
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Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Post by Renegadenemo »

At present, both Gina & the RM have stepped firmly away from their previous positions. They have both changed - whereas (IMHO) the BBP have been consistent - and stayed where they were.
That's about the size of it - our goals have never changed, until now at least. We now accept that the RM isn't interested in a running boat and goodness only knows what Gina is up to. The museum doesn't want a contract with us - that's fine. We'll carry on without any of them and if they want anything they can come and ask us.
Bill, has Gina not been in touch to explain things since her speech at the RM?
No, not a peep but then we weren't expecting an explanation anyway.

I did, however, look back through the suicide speech a few days ago and it is quite shocking. It was described by the members of our team who were present as 'a hatchet job'' and, though I'd seen bits and pieces of it already, I only watched it through and took it in properly for the first time this week. I'll set out the other side to it in due course.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.' W.C. Fields.
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Richie
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Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Post by Richie »

I don’t believe Gina is being controlled by anyone.

Gina has changed her mind which she is entitled to do, won’t be the first time, won’t be the last, like anyone else I suppose, it is a gift of living in the free world !!

I did not personally agree with the platform she chose to swing the proverbial bat, or the relentless name calling on various social media platforms and forums that followed, however, that’s her prerogative and I hold no malice towards her at all.

As a side note regarding this mess, comments surface regularly from the same individuals that BBP have “Stolen” bluebird, or the usual “give it back to its owners the RM..”

My question in response to these comments would be.

“If the above was true, how has the boat not been legally recovered “post” legal action which was taken by the RM to arrest the boat immediately after Bute ? Surely if it was 100% their property it would be a very simple case of a quick trip to court followed by an even quicker trip to BBP workshop with the local police, bish bash bosh, job done...:???”

Two years later and nada ?.......... res ipsa loquitur (the matter speaks for itself)

The problem going forward as I personally see it is and it is blatantly obvious, BBP do infact own the parts made and fitted to the boat, RM own the wreckage that was recovered, CHT own nothing.

Now the RM have an agenda that in no way aligns to the agenda of BBP, each own (without splitting hairs and for arguments sake) 50% of the craft.

How do you proceed ? The RM have made it crystal clear that they will NEVER work with Bill ever again, they are resolute with this matter.

So what is therefore suggested ?
Last edited by Richie on Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Post by Engine 711 »

Richie wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:46 pm The RM have made it crystal clear that they will NEVER work with Bill ever again, they are resolute with this matter.

So what is therefore suggested ?
I would like to understand why the RM have said their will never work with Bill again. Is it that specific...? So they would work with the BBP, without Bill - ??? Or are they saying they will never work with the BBP....?

I assume 'RM' here really means the RM Trustees - the 6 people - or 8...? Those people could change their minds (maybe unlikely) - or different people could become Trustees, in due course (which is certain).

If its just down to individual personalities, that's a different matter.
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Richie
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Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Post by Richie »

Engine 711 wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:13 pm
Richie wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:46 pm The RM have made it crystal clear that they will NEVER work with Bill ever again, they are resolute with this matter.

So what is therefore suggested ?
I would like to understand why the RM have said their will never work with Bill again. Is it that specific...? So they would work with the BBP, without Bill - ??? Or are they saying they will never work with the BBP....?

I assume 'RM' here really means the RM Trustees - the 6 people - or 8...? Those people could change their minds (maybe unlikely) - or different people could become Trustees, in due course (which is certain).

If its just down to individual personalities, that's a different matter.
We (The team) are not recognised by them or anyone else involved, unskilled volunteers, Untermensch... as we are not considered humans in the general sense of the word their gripe can only be with Bill ?
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Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Post by Engine 711 »

Richie wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:53 pm We (The team) are not recognised by them or anyone else involved, unskilled volunteers, Untermensch... as we are not considered humans in the general sense of the word their gripe can only be with Bill ?
Right. The BBP Team are Volunteers - yes. But Unskilled - ??? I would not agree there - at all. I struggle to understand how anyone could think that. Unless I apply Dunning-Kruger - they are simply not bright enough to understand.

I wonder... What 'skills' do the RM Trustees possess - ? The ability to paint themselves into a corner, which they made earlier.....! An inability to work with other people, outside of their own experience.

But how to resolve this....? The stupid solution is to break K7 up - into a RM part and a BBP part. Which is plain stupid. But I guess the RM would be happy with that.....?

Otherwise, unless some sort of miraculous change occurs, it can only be - to say sod the RM - and the BBP does its own thing...? Not sure how this would pan out - given that the RM do appear to own the original parts of K7....?
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Renegadenemo
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Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Post by Renegadenemo »

Otherwise, unless some sort of miraculous change occurs, it can only be - to say sod the RM - and the BBP does its own thing...? Not sure how this would pan out - given that the RM do appear to own the original parts of K7....?
It's not that complex - yes they say they won't deal with me, well there's an anomaly because a great many have had no problem whatsoever, in fact many lasting friendships and associations have come out of the negotiations it has taken to get this far so the problem clearly lies at their side of the table. Something they proved when invited to meet with Jordan and Peter Roper-Hall - they couldn't do that either. Nice try but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

And they say we don't have a 2013 agreement. OK, let's do that then- no 2013 agreement. But therein lies the only offer we have EVER made to give them full ownership and also the only offer we have ever made to allow them to display our parts because, as Rich correctly points out, if they weren't our parts there'd be no problem for the museum to come get them.

But it's deeper than that. You see, the piles of dripping scrap certainly weren't a boat and couldn't be used as such so they were subsumed as raw materials into the creation of a new Bluebird K7 and those new parts are now irreducible so we own those as well.

The CHT gave away only the wreckage, they couldn't give away what didn't exist and the deed of gift that the trolls endlessly harp on about is an agreement between the RM and the CHT only in which the RM agreed to display the boat - not us.

So where has the RM got itself to now?

They have no deal, no offer of ownership nor to display our parts, they own next to nothing if anything at all and if they want anything they're going to have to fire up their lawyers and come asking. We have tried until we're blue in the face to help them and if they'd had half an ounce of common sense between them they'd have grabbed the 2013 agreement with both hands and hung on.

Sod them - that's what just happened.
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'It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.' W.C. Fields.
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Richie
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Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Post by Richie »

Plenty of time between now and the end of the proverbial road to hash it all out I guess.

I just want to get COVID out of the way so we can get back on with sorting K7 out...

Between that and sorting predator / surveying ship wrecks / diving shipwrecks / crusader / tank tracks and general tanker’y we have a busy few years ahead of us all in all.

For now all I see we can do is just crack on, should the museum reach out to any of us then happy days, if they don’t...nothing has changed nothing has been lost or gained and we all remain in the same stalemate.
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