Return to the Water

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Renegadenemo » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:38 am

I said back in the day, why bother with the byelaw amendment at all because the fine for breaking the speed limit is only £20 and I'd gladly throw a couple of hundred quid into the pot to get some runs in. But then you have the bleating, save the duck brigade, etc, not to mention the fact that some Type III would undoubtedly get in the way of two and a half tons of gas turbine powered monster.

Would be good if there were actually some key people to deal with over there. Ten years swimming about in the ocean of committees (and don't get me started on the committee mentality!) with no result versus two months of dealing with key people in Scotland. No contest.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

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'Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B if you wanna make a dream reality' Mark Knopfler

Malcolm Ops
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Malcolm Ops » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:58 pm

Even today I would advise against flouting any Byelaw (or indeed English law). [From my earlier posting this was my view in 2006 when there was no applicable Byelaw, except the 10mph prohibition]. I agree that someone might decide personally to spoil any 'illegal' running and keeping such things quiet in this day and age is even more difficult.

Time has moved on and the Level 2 fine could now be up to £500.00. Not a high cost for some fun on Coniston Water I agree, however the Courts may decide to impose other penalties, such as impounding the craft. That would not be much use to the Ruskin Museum and the village.

We are led to believe that an 'application' for an individual World Speed Record attempt (CW Byelaw 4) is going through the LDNPA 'Process for Coniston Water', although few details are in the public domain. What is interesting is that the operator of the craft has indicated on its website that the 'to be confirmed' dates for this bid will be from the months of 'April, May and June 2018'.
Malcolm Ops

Derby, England

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Renegadenemo » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:57 pm

We are led to believe that an 'application' for an individual World Speed Record attempt (CW Byelaw 4) is going through the LDNPA 'Process for Coniston Water', although few details are in the public domain. What is interesting is that the operator of the craft has indicated on its website that the 'to be confirmed' dates for this bid will be from the months of 'April, May and June 2018'.
I'm told that that application has been on the desk at bureaucracy central for four months already but it might be signed off next month. as I explained to the bureaucrat who told me this - pretty poor performance compared to the two months it took to get sign-off in Scotland for August when every school kid in the UK can come and be inspired.

What's so amazing (though not surprising) is the moving of the goalposts. They told us in 2008 that they 'wanted' this when we told them in our initial planning document that we'd be doing it in good weather for all ages and now they expect us to prepare some stupid application after they faked up the documentation to basically say we're not going to get what we're supposed to apply for in the first place. It's the HLF all over again.

It's becoming slightly entertaining now. If they don't grow a pair soon we'll take the proving trial somewhere else and they can explain themselves until the end of time. :lol:
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

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no1traumanurse
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by no1traumanurse » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:20 am

Let me see if I have got this straight.
You have beavered away for the best part of 2 decades to restore Bluebird K7.
Battled bureaucracy that wouldn’t give you so much as a sniff of coin of the realm to help out.
Got bye-laws changed the best part of 10 years ago to enable you test Bluebird at speeds up to roughly 100mph. If I read the laws correctly, that means as many development runs as you deem fit and 12 fullish tilt runs.
Got the Ruskin museum extended to house Bluebird, albeit with the museum doors welded shut and access via tunnel only for those who live in Cumbria and can provide DNA and family trees that prove they worthy of a ticket.

Now the unforeseen part.
You actually have got to the point where the Bluebird is within a gnats whisker of being ready to get wet. Well done, wasn’t supposed to happen.
You want her to be seen on the water by as many people as possible, especially those of school age who might actually learn a smidge of history.
You require a training period to learn how to run Bluebird safely, perfectly reasonable. Except the bye-law change didn’t take into account that you might need to learn what you were doing before hitting the pedal and getting up to 100mph.

The bit causing panic.
Coniston despite its picturesque setting and forever emotive connection to Donald Campbell, is the worst place to hold a big event.
This will be the reason for collective panic at the LDNPA.
Parking for what? 15 cars on a good day?
Access from 2 directions, one on a road barely big enough for squashed rabbits and the other via the bottleneck of Ambleside. Let’s face it, sun shines, schools closed, all adds up to a nightmare in that part of the world.
Obviously I have no idea of the contingency plans that will have been worked out between you in the intervening years, but I can guess it amounts to the LDNPA wanting the kudos without lifting a finger. Oh, and here is the bill for the help we didn’t provide.

Do all of us that have followed the story from the beginning want to see Bluebird running on Coniston Water? Absolutely, it’s the right thing to do.
Will it happen now? In my mind I see water from Scotland dripping on the floor of the Ruskin after you prove, successfully, that Bluebird is back to her former best.

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rich1608
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by rich1608 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:28 am

Quite simply, if the LDNPA and Coniston don't get their act together and welcome Bluebird with open arms they will be the laughing stock of the whole planet if the proving trials take place elsewhere. They will have egg on their face for many years to come for throwing away the opportunity of the century. And let's not forget that Bluebird took two of her WWSRs in different continents so if the trials don't take place on Coniston then that's fine by me!

Terminator
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Terminator » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:02 pm

Only one thing missing from the above is during the many meetings with the Heritagr events group that Malcolm and myself attended. Out came the shocking fee of £345 per half day or £690 per full day for two of their officials or observers to Sit on their collective behinds!!!! Grandstand seats whilst charging The Bluebird Project made up of volunteers this insane amoount!!! Not even a discount for the full day :roll: not one penny will be paid as we stated at the last but one meeting.

Novie
"Never ride faster than your Angel can fly"

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Renegadenemo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:45 pm

I reckon the best plan here is to go to Bute then start planning the proving trial for the following August - we'll need 12 months to properly finish the boat up to display standard anyway - and see whether the LDNPA / Coniston are on track to host it. They have plenty of time between now and our crew training to get organised.
If they still don't want it by then we'll throw it out there for a new partner. As there's nothing we can do at the BBP and it's all in the hands of others we can move on with a clear conscience and without blame.

If they do get their act together we'll put on an amazing show for them on Coniston.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B if you wanna make a dream reality' Mark Knopfler

Malcolm Ops
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Malcolm Ops » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:04 pm

An observer of the postings from the LDNPA and the responses from the BBP on social media described to me "how reasonable the LDNPA had been in their statement".

I found this a little hard to believe so I looked again at what had been said and saw that I had not clearly rebutted the second sentence of the statement from the LDNPA. A statement which has been published widely, word for word, in the mainstream press, including the BBC.

“We are disappointed that the Bluebird K7 team have chosen to undergo proving trials in Scotland and not on Coniston Water. This was unexpected news to us given we were still in conversation with the Bluebird K7 project ......."

Many on the BBP including myself have covered the difference between crew training and any Proving Trial. What I missed and what my speed friend pointed out to me as being very reasonable, was the "... given we (LDNPA) were still in conversation with the Bluebird K7 project ....".

Reasonable perhaps but of course not accurate!

Novie and I were the two representatives of the BBP who have met LDNPA officers frequently, not just because we sat on the village Event Working Group (EWG) whose last meeting was held on the 7th February. On the 8th February I concluded a few tasks that the EWG meeting members had asked me to do, including drawing up the composite 31 organisations and businesses long consultee list. Later that same evening I set down my reasons to the Chair of the group why I would not be attending any further EWG meetings. [Without any change from the LDNPA on the timing of the Proving Trial any presence of the BBP on the EWG would not be of any use]. Contact with the LDNPA came to an effective end on February 9th, conversation was at an end.

The BBP press release and press call were two weeks after this date and the LDNPA statement was itself made long after the date of the BBP press announcement (27th February). The Bluebird Project was not 'still in conversation with the LDNPA' from the 9th February and this lasted until our Project Leader received a telephone call last week in an attempt to resolve the date 'problem'.

I hope to sleep better after writing this down. Thanks if you took the time to read it. Malcolm
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Stuart Baker
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Stuart Baker » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:47 pm

Having just read all of this I think that the problem is that someone misheard you guys. You said you wanted to talk to the principals and they heard that you wanted to talk to the principles...

Either way, as ever, my best wishes for wherever you take Bluebird to the water. Your story is inspirational and needs to be told to as wide an audience as possible.

S

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Renegadenemo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:30 pm

Either way, as ever, my best wishes for wherever you take Bluebird to the water. Your story is inspirational and needs to be told to as wide an audience as possible.
Thanks Stuart, kind words and good to know you're still looking in on us. For those who don't know, Stuart and his team were instrumental in making our engine run using many original components a complete success.
The BBP press release and press call were two weeks after this date and the LDNPA statement was itself made long after the date of the BBP press announcement (27th February). The Bluebird Project was not 'still in conversation with the LDNPA' from the 9th February and this lasted until our Project Leader received a telephone call last week in an attempt to resolve the date 'problem'.
That was no attempt to resolve the date problem. It was a panicked bleat about how we absolutely must make an application to run K7 - not a chance. I said we'd speak again once they'd sorted the timing issue and written to us to that effect. Mr Bureaucrat then told me in warning tones there's rules that we 'ignore at our peril' (all I could do to keep from bursting out laughing at that) and that as a member of the business community I must understand this because I know I have have to pay my VAT. Oh, puh-lease...

Well, Mr Jobsworth, if you're reading this... do your due diligence on me and you'll find that I enjoy a spot of peril whilst I'll bet a fiver you've never been self-employed.

We are, apparently, no different to someone who may, for instance, want to hold a synchronised swimming tournament in Wastwater. That's as may be on paper but I doubt very much that ballsing up a synchronised swimming tournament would get you the sack.

This is different, I tried to explain. Nothing like anything that's gone before or likely will again. A mind-blowing piece of history, an opportunity as wide as it's long and deserving of special consideration, a veritable feast of possibilities...

But rules are rules... How do people live like that? Perhaps, you know how you can get a guide dog for the blind, maybe you can nowadays get a thinking dog for the stupid and we should have a whip-round to get them one.

And from another source, not Mr. Jobsworth at the Lackadaisical Display of Not Producing Anything this time. I was told that a potential showstopper was traffic management and closing a single road meant a bureaucratical excursion to the terrifying heights of County Council level - eek! And that they wouldn't touch it without a feasibility study that would cost £3K that isn't to be had.

Now then, we've been quietly taking your donated money and flogging you DVDs for ten years and chucking every penny we could save into a pot while we work and travel as volunteers. What this means is that when we had to sign a cheque last week for our accommodation on Bute, a handful of modest apartments, the cash was at hand, so why couldn't our wannabe partners afford their feasibility study?

The excuse was that nothing could be done because we'd never given them a 'when'.

Now, as I've said already - I care not how hopeless or disorganised anyone wants to be just so long as they don't attempt to shift any hint of blame to our side of the table because we are neither hopeless nor disorganised and have done everything expected of us.

I'd wager that the County Council has absolutely no idea when they'll next be washed out and have half of their roads and bridges carried away by flash floods - but I bet they have a plan.

No excuses, please.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B if you wanna make a dream reality' Mark Knopfler

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