Technical Talk

Post Reply
User avatar
Renegadenemo
Posts: 4588
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:29 pm
Location: N E England
Contact:

Re: Pic of the Day

Post by Renegadenemo » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:15 pm

One story I heard was that sponsorship for K7's fuel in the 66/67 campaign was arranged via the local farmers, which seems unlikely to me but you never know, and that by the end he was running tractor diesel in the boat.

On that matter I knew a bloke who installed helicopter turbines in an offshore powerboat and whereas diesel was easy to come by AVTUR was not so he experimented. What he discovered was that diesel worked very badly in cold turbines and made lots of soot and smoke but once the engines were hot they could burn it properly so what he did was use dual fuel. Kerosene for starting and warmup then diesel once everything was hot. There you go - a supreme piece of useless information.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
If I give one hour of joy
To the boy who’s half a man,
Or the man who’s half a boy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

ace_chris
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:31 pm

Re: Pic of the Day

Post by ace_chris » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:29 pm

Mike Bull wrote:I'd never even heard the rumour about the fuel until Bill mentioned it to me the other day- where the hell did that story originate? At least that's one daft rumour that can be 100% put to bed, anyhow.
I'd heard that from some of the local's in Coniston years ago, guess time warps the memory. Its good that the rebuild puts to bed all of these rumours. Chris

User avatar
sheppane
Posts: 497
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:03 am
Location: Chiswick, West London and Penrith, Cumbria.

Re: Pic of the Day

Post by sheppane » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:47 am

Renegadenemo wrote:One story I heard was that sponsorship for K7's fuel in the 66/67 campaign was arranged via the local farmers, which seems unlikely to me but you never know, and that by the end he was running tractor diesel in the boat.

On that matter I knew a bloke who installed helicopter turbines in an offshore powerboat and whereas diesel was easy to come by AVTUR was not so he experimented. What he discovered was that diesel worked very badly in cold turbines and made lots of soot and smoke but once the engines were hot they could burn it properly so what he did was use dual fuel. Kerosene for starting and warmup then diesel once everything was hot. There you go - a supreme piece of useless information.
The rumour has an element of truth to it, re home heating fuel:

DMC obtained his paraffin from Hadwin's of Torver. It was the same type of fuel which was used for home heating in the local area in that era. This is before widespread use of central heating, particularly in rural areas.
The paraffin is of course pretty much the same fuel as aviation Kerosene - which of course back in the 60's would not have been developed as much as todays aviation fuels are.
Hadwin's were the local Land Rover dealer, established in 1962. After the accident, in lieu of payment for the paraffin supplied, Leo arranged that Hadwin's would take ownership of the teams Land Rover, which was equipped with various compressors, and equipment to support both the car and boat. The Land Rover was retained by the garage, and is to the best of my knowledge in the process of being restored back to its original condition.

Hope that helps,

Neil
'When you go down into the arena, you know that sometimes, you're likely to get your nose punched. You do it with your eyes open. You take the risks'

Donald Campbell, Bluebird and The Final Record Attempt. https://www.facebook.com/bluebirdk7/

User avatar
Renegadenemo
Posts: 4588
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:29 pm
Location: N E England
Contact:

Re: Pic of the Day

Post by Renegadenemo » Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:36 am

I'd be surprised if that story is entirely correct because early in our investigations we collected a sample of pure fuel from the filter bleed screw and sent it to the lab along with a sample of pure AVTUR obtained from the airport. Both were subjected to detailed gas chromatography and the constituents and proportions of both liquids were expressed graphically. The two liquids weren't close - they were exact, right down to the more aromatic compounds in K7's fuel despite 34 years trapped underwater. The only answer, therefore, is that either K7 was running pure, aviation-grade AVTUR sourced for the job or the local central heating boilers were running it too.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
If I give one hour of joy
To the boy who’s half a man,
Or the man who’s half a boy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

User avatar
Mike Bull
Posts: 4550
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:57 pm

Re: Pic of the Day

Post by Mike Bull » Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:41 am

I think all Neil meant is that there was a heating oil element to a story about Donald- not that it was used in the boat.
'I am not what is called a "civilized man", Professor. I have done with society for reasons that seem good to me.'

User avatar
huszarail
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:13 am

Re: Pic of the Day

Post by huszarail » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:23 am

Renegadenemo wrote:Three units here, it's the gubbins on the right. It's something to do with the PRC or the AFRC, I assume.
As we look at them. Left to right. Air Fuel Ratio Control, Pressure Ratio Switch, Pressure Ratio Limiter.
All concerned with accelerating the engine, so highly likely to have been set up especially for the task, perhaps where that Lab Report comes in.
AFRC controls supply of fuel to accelerate engine to new throttle setting.
PR Switch devides an engine derived pressure (P2) to better control engine acceleration demands.
PR Limiter prevents overfuelling or stalling of the compressor.
All of the above inoperative during steady state running.

Eau de kerosene, lovely ain't it? :D
I'm only a man from Del Monte..........

User avatar
Mike Bull
Posts: 4550
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:57 pm

Re: Pic of the Day

Post by Mike Bull » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:29 am

Eau de kerosene, lovely ain't it?
I think so! Well, it's evocative at the moment anyway, of the boat once being a living, fire-breathing machine.

As for the list of parts and what they do, to the rest of us it's more like this-

'AFRC controls supply of fuel to accelerate engine to new throttle setting and drives Bill Smith insane.
PR Switch divides an engine derived pressure (P2) to better control engine acceleration demands and drives Bill Smith insane.
PR Limiter prevents overfuelling or stalling of the compressor and drives Bill Smith insane.
All of the above inoperative during steady state running, further driving Bill Smith insane.'

;)
'I am not what is called a "civilized man", Professor. I have done with society for reasons that seem good to me.'

User avatar
Renegadenemo
Posts: 4588
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:29 pm
Location: N E England
Contact:

Re: Pic of the Day

Post by Renegadenemo » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:35 am

I'm not insane over those bits yet - though I'm quietly pleased that I correctly identified them (and thanks for the neads-up) - it's the CCU (Combined Control Unit) that's currently driving me nuts. it's full of sleeve valves and fiddly widgets and mud. Oh joy! The pump is looking good though. All it needs is a new rotor bearing and we're in business. We have a spare bearing but it's on another rotor and will it come off? Nope. Working on it - and going insane.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
If I give one hour of joy
To the boy who’s half a man,
Or the man who’s half a boy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

ace_chris
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:31 pm

Re: Pic of the Day

Post by ace_chris » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:45 pm

sheppane wrote:
Renegadenemo wrote:One story I heard was that sponsorship for K7's fuel in the 66/67 campaign was arranged via the local farmers, which seems unlikely to me but you never know, and that by the end he was running tractor diesel in the boat.

On that matter I knew a bloke who installed helicopter turbines in an offshore powerboat and whereas diesel was easy to come by AVTUR was not so he experimented. What he discovered was that diesel worked very badly in cold turbines and made lots of soot and smoke but once the engines were hot they could burn it properly so what he did was use dual fuel. Kerosene for starting and warmup then diesel once everything was hot. There you go - a supreme piece of useless information.
The rumour has an element of truth to it, re home heating fuel:

DMC obtained his paraffin from Hadwin's of Torver. It was the same type of fuel which was used for home heating in the local area in that era. This is before widespread use of central heating, particularly in rural areas.
The paraffin is of course pretty much the same fuel as aviation Kerosene - which of course back in the 60's would not have been developed as much as todays aviation fuels are.
Hadwin's were the local Land Rover dealer, established in 1962. After the accident, in lieu of payment for the paraffin supplied, Leo arranged that Hadwin's would take ownership of the teams Land Rover, which was equipped with various compressors, and equipment to support both the car and boat. The Land Rover was retained by the garage, and is to the best of my knowledge in the process of being restored back to its original condition.

Hope that helps,

Neil
Thanks for that Neil, I thought there was an element of truth to it! Chris

User avatar
huszarail
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:13 am

Re: Pic of the Day

Post by huszarail » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:40 pm

Renegadenemo wrote:The pump is looking good though. All it needs is a new rotor bearing and we're in business. We have a spare bearing but it's on another rotor and will it come off? Nope. Working on it - and going insane.
:shock: !! ?? Pump rotor runs on two carbon bearings is it one of these that's stuck? Or do you mean the bronze thrust ball at the base of the pump extension?
Look closely for a hand etched mark L.S.(then a number) / then another number that signifies an over or undersize used. This specifies that an approved repair scheme has been applied to the part in question. Carbon faced seal on the pump extension is very contrary.
I'm only a man from Del Monte..........

Post Reply