LOST!! Hep Me!! Hep Me!!

[Sam_68]

Surely the logical conclusion has to be that the later document somehow affects the earlier one in a way that they don't want to reveal.

No, the logical conclusion is that they don't feel it to be relevant. If it exists, then it only came into being after the restoration was substantially completed, which seems strange in itself.

I've only noticed one participant in this sorry affair who has been reluctant to answer simple and direct questions, when it is not in his interest to do so.

I repeat: if you consider it to be so important, and to make the case so strongly in your favour, why not simply publish it yourself, instead of trying to use mysterious suggestions about its content to deflect from those very clear contractual obligations that are already in the public domain?

[Ernie Lazenby]

Sam 68. Better if you post under your real name, carries more weight.
Anyway the 2019 document is I believe being used to cloud the issue. It simply clarifies ownership transfer that took place in 2006 when Miss Campbell gifted K7 to the Ruskin. I believe it should have been the Campbell heritage trust not Miss Campbell on her own and that's what has been put right. Just my understanding of it, I may be wrong. The problem for the BBP is the other document signed up to in 2006 (I know that date is now being disputed)
I best clarify something. I am indeed leovilla on piston heads; regrettably I signed up to that forum quite some time ago and did so not using my real name. I have now left that forum because some of the language and tone really belongs in the school yard and does not further debate 1 inch. I don't want to be associated with it. I got equally upset annoyed at some of the disparaging comments coming out of the project directed across the hills to Coniston people.

My opinion is this sorry story is attracting the wrong sort of debate and has done for a long time. The BBP cannot win this one, put it back together and give it to the museum without caveat. After that talk and sort it like grown ups. The longer this goes on its very unlikely that the Ruskin trustees would want anything to do with the project even after K7 is returned by court order or otherwise. How does that reward the BBP for years of work but given what is going on perfectly understandable.

Time to get grown up please. Bill you are a strong character; well sometimes even very strong characters who believe they are right have to look at the reality of a situation and ask is this really where we want to be and ask should I put aside my pride for the better good of many others.
I am old fashioned and maybe out of my time now.

[Sam_68]

Sam 68. Better if you post under your real name, carries more weight.

Why? You wouldn't have heard of me, so I might as well just call myself something mundane (how about Bill Smith? There's a nice, bland average name for you?) and you wouldn't know any difference.

Meanwhile, if Billy Liar is so (rightly) paranoid that he's imagining I'm someone else, well, that's an amusement for us all?

[Filtertron]

Sam 68. Better if you post under your real name, carries more weight.

Why? You wouldn't have heard of me, so I might as well just call myself something mundane (how about Bill Smith? There's a nice, bland average name for you?) and you wouldn't know any difference.

Meanwhile, if Billy Liar is so (rightly) paranoid that he's imagining I'm someone else, well, that's an amusement for us all?

Seriously dude, you need to grow up. You're not amusing in the slightest, and neither are your constant attempts at getting Bill to react.

For your info, Ernie is probably the most sensible and balanced supporter of the Ruskin. In fact, I'd say he's a true supporter, as he doesn't going around muck-raking, and getting personal. Ernie's posts reflect a hell of a lot better upon the Ruskin than your's do. I certainly don't agree with Ernie all the time, as I support the BBP, but he has been fair to both sides and a gentleman throughout this whole debacle and has earned my respect. You could certainly learn a thing or two from the example he sets.

Perhaps without people like you stirring the pot all the time, both sides might actually be able to cast their personalities aside for long enough to come up with something that works for both parties, and the future of K7.

[Sam_68]

Perhaps without people like you stirring the pot all the time, both sides might actually be able to cast their personalities aside for long enough to come up with something that works for both parties, and the future of K7.

I think you need to stand back and take a long, hard look at Billy's behaviour.

To suggest that my trivial level of activity has had any influence whatsoever on him is absurd.

All he has to do is give some straight answers, and if the situation is really as he claims it is, I'd have no alternative but to run away with my tail between my legs.

So come on, Billy, lets see these documents that you keep telling us prove your side of the story?

You're accusing the Ruskin of having things to hide, but you won't tell us what, and the fact that you won't give straight answers to very simple questions is making it look like you're the only one who's hiding, here.

Ernie's posts reflect a hell of a lot better upon the Ruskin than your's do.

Let me make it absolutely clear: I HAVE NO CONNECTION TO THE RUSKIN AND DO NOT REPRESENT THEM IN ANY WAY. My posts do not reflect on the Ruskin in any way, shape or form.

[Filtertron]

Neat. So you're only here to troll. Thanks for admitting it.

[Sam_68]

Neat. So you're only here to troll. Thanks for admitting it.

Not at all.

I have a very long-standing interest in, and family connections to, Bluebird. You will see that my profile on this forum dates back many years, even.... certainly long before you became a member.

I'm posting here because there is a blatant attempt under way to misappropriate an important part of this country's engineering heritage... and it's not the Ruskin that's doing it.

If Billy has nothing to hide, I ask him again to stop being evasive and simply publish the contracts that he claims exist in support of his position.

[Richie]

How about you take a breath and just wait and see what unfolds

Please kindly wind your neck in for five minutes or so...


Like Filtertron I don’t agree with Ernie’s views, but I respect him and I respect they are his views which more often than not are presented in a reasoned and balanced manner. As such Ernie is always welcome here granted we haven’t always seen eye to eye.


Sam68 I will issue one warning to you and one warning only, any further derogatory comments from you and you will be gone from this forum...By all means make your point, but make it constructively and politely, if you are angry then don’t post until you have calmed down, I appreciate you are clearly an aficionado and a passionate person for which I doth tip my cap but please keep this civil, minimise the hate as best you can. I have not taken part in this debate and don’t intend to, I won’t be drawn in and I have advised Bill not to comment further at the present time for which he has agreed (although it goes against his nature)

All that remains to be said is please be patient for a little longer whether you are with or against BBP I wish you luck and none of us here bid you ill feeling, what will be will be.

Can we please park this for now for all concerned, both the Ruskin, Gina and the BBP. When there is progress to report one of the three will report it, hopefully in a positive light no less

Peace.

[JfromJAGs]

This is all extremely disappointed for everyone around the globe who loves that blue boat and would love to see it do for what it was made for - skimming across the water.

Sam, whoever you are and what your connections to the Campbell family may be, belittling other people, expecially when they have done so much, makes you extremely unsympathetic and when I read your posts I just want to puke.

Ernie, as written earlier, your comparisons just don't match here. In my view this whole story stamps the people of Coniston and of the Ruskin museum narrow-minded, smugly and ungrateful. Without Bill and his team - and money from the EU - they would have had nothing except some old and almost forgotten aluminum pieces laying 300ft deap in their lake.

I wanted to see K7 on Coniston water and then spend some time in the area. Now I don't care anymore, I highly doubt I will make that trip if the K7 is taken from the BBP. What a difference to the warm welcome on Bute, by the people up there and by the BBP team.

Joerg

[bluebirdsback]

Just like to add that this is between the Ruskin museum CHT and BBP and has absolutely sod all to do with anyone else. All of you key board warriors have been invited to the workshop to air your views. Where are you. We have great support world wide.