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Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:31 pm
by Healey nut
As I have said before ,
They can’t see the forest for the trees and it’s hard to look down the barrel of a gun with your head up your proverbial rear end .

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:17 pm
by Renegadenemo
The township's economy couldn't be faring too well, and will take a while to gain momentum again.
I’m sure they’ll be fine. The news says ‘staycation’ bookings are skyrocketing so the camp sites, caravan parks and B&Bs will soon be bursting at the seams and at those good old Lake District prices too – and good for them. People have their livelihoods to think of and if it all comes flooding back post-Covid then that can only be a good thing.

As for K7 – let’s be completely honest here. The museum doesn’t want it unless we weigh it over and go home never to return and that isn’t happening, ever. The region doesn’t seem to want a temporary influx of extra tourists or the hassle of organising a festival no matter how much extra revenue it generates and the park authority doesn’t want that either except maybe at times outside of those windows in which we would be able to properly inspire, educate and entertain so it's time to accept that there’s nothing for anyone in that direction and even less point in pushing it. it is what it is.

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:51 pm
by Malcolm Ops
Renegadenemo wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:17 pm so it's time to accept that there’s nothing for anyone in that direction and even less point in pushing it. it is what it is.
I suppose I should help look for another stretch of water for a 'proving trial'. A 'homecoming' on the back of a transporter does not appeal to me.

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:49 am
by Renegadenemo
I suppose I should help look for another stretch of water for a 'proving trial'. A 'homecoming' on the back of a transporter does not appeal to me.
Knowing what we know now we will have to go back to the water to verify that some of our fixes have worked once we complete the rebuild - we can't,for instance, tell whether the canopy will stay on or the jetpipe cooling will stop trying to ingest the entire lake until we get some water flying around.
But as for a homecoming on a transporter, it's the word 'homecoming' that somehow doesn't fit. Considering that the bottom of a lake was hardly a fitting 'home' and her erstwhile housekeepers seem no longer interested, the time has surely come to have our own 'Bluebird Wing' so she can be properly cared for and kept tip-top and in fighting trim whilst being accessible to anyone who wants to meet the team and have a look at her Tyneside home of twenty years.

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:27 am
by Malcolm Ops
As a speed 'enthusiast', and not a regular hands-on preserver or restorer of the craft K7, I would suggest that K7 is strongly linked with Coniston Water and therefore Coniston village. Even if, for a greater part of the passing decades since being built the shattered parts were submerged. (Except of course those that were recovered after the crash and subsequently 'recycled').

Yes, the boat was taken across the world for publicity and to chase higher speeds at every opportunity, but its successes were mainly in Cumbria and on Coniston Water. I believe boating people would call that her 'home water'. Hence I stated 'homecoming', to take the craft to the village and to the surface of Coniston Water.

To me the travesty would be that the restored and operating boat is not allowed to be put under power on that lake at an appropriate time of year. Floating it at a jetty would not show the World what British engineering and BBP engineers over the past 20 years have been able to achieve. Turning on the power and 'scooching' (is that the correct term?) down and back up this lake at speeds above 10mph, is to me another major part in the story of Bluebird K7.

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:03 pm
by Renegadenemo
To me the travesty would be that the restored and operating boat is not allowed to be put under power on that lake at an appropriate time of year. Floating it at a jetty would not show the World what British engineering and BBP engineers over the past 20 years have been able to achieve. Turning on the power and 'scooching' (is that the correct term?) down and back up this lake at speeds above 10mph, is to me another major part in the story of Bluebird K7.
Couldn't agree more and you and I, along with many others, have fought long and hard to make that a reality but, as I said, there's zero interest from those who would have to join the effort to make it happen and that's not our choice so we need to consider other options. As joint owners of the machine we're just as entitled to have our own Bluebird Wing so we may as well make a start on that so at least the rebuild side of the story is accessible to anyone who is interested and we may know a thing or two about our mate Donald too.

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:44 pm
by Richie
I agree with Malcolm that Coniston is K7’s “spiritual home” and I would like to see her active on that body of water, and on display at the Ruskin too !

Problem is I would likely need a hazmat suit and visor to protect me against all the phlegm and spit that would be forthcoming if I stepped into the village, maybe I would need a crash helmet for the event I am rugby tackled to the floor by the likes of Stuch furiously beating my skull in with an old Elvis mug or something similar, or perhaps Brian fopping me to the ground with a cosh as he passed by on starship bluebird (anyone who played the game Road Rash in the 80’s will get my reference). WHO KNOWS !!


I jest slightly here, but only slightly !!



Problem is the Ruskin's lead has made VERY public comments during a radio chat show with yourself that negotiations will not come anytime soon. Ergo It’s a dead horse, thy can’t flogeth it any more ! Other than Jordan’s efforts which failed before they commenced, they HAVE NOT engaged at all

So what now ? Another four or five full circles of the same old same old ? We will ALL still be where we are now....no further forwards.


None of the above will stop me working on the boat or finishing my “tasks” that Hyd system is a cruel mistress who WILL be tamed !! The original crew never got it working properly but by god I WILL !

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:16 am
by Renegadenemo
I agree with Malcolm that Coniston is K7’s “spiritual home” and I would like to see her active on that body of water, and on display at the Ruskin too !
I never got the 'spiritual home' thing, and less so every day. Maybe I'm just not spiritual enough. But we have worked for a very long time to get her back onto that lake and on display in the museum so I'm on the same page there at least.
Problem is the Ruskin's lead has made VERY public comments during a radio chat show with yourself that negotiations will not come anytime soon. Ergo It’s a dead horse, thy can’t flogeth it any more ! Other than Jordan’s efforts which failed before they commenced, they HAVE NOT engaged at all
Not quite the lead but leader enough to know better, you'd imagine, and the total lack of engagement is gobsmacking. I thought there might have been a glimmer of hope this week but it was a false dawn, sadly, and I'm done trying. Let the lawyers have their fun.
So what now ? Another four or five full circles of the same old same old ? We will ALL still be where we are now....no further forwards.


None of the above will stop me working on the boat or finishing my “tasks” that Hyd system is a cruel mistress who WILL be tamed !! The original crew never got it working properly but by god I WILL !
It's on to plan z now - we'll get back on the tools and get the job finished now the joint ownership thing has been settled by the legal-eagles, scrub up K7's Tyneside spiritual home as a neat little visitor centre - our own Bluebird Wing - and try our hand at being a museum. Oh, and we have Crusader to finish, Jetstar to complete, Predator to re-commission a broken canopy to find and much diving to do. That enough for you?

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:32 am
by Richie
Well it’s a starter for six

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:52 am
by JfromJAGs
It hurts to read that there is no hope to find a compromise with the Ruskin Museum. If the joint ownership is correct and if the case will go to court then it will probably take ages until this is solved. My expectations are that neither side will be happy with the result - or - in case one side would really win, then everyone involved will be to old to enjoy the victory.

One fact seams to be that the Rusking Museum is not interested in an operational boat, mostly because of all the work that would come with it. The only solution they can handle is to display a dead boat. They don't seam to have the resources to operate K7 nor to organize runs on Coniston Water or even elsewhere. Even of the BBP would organize everything (which would be a lot more work than organizing trails on Bute), this still would be a hassle for them - so they don't want it. It's really sad that this is only communicated now - well 'communicared' is probably the wrong word here - almost after 20 years of hard work by the BBP team. But the truth is finally out now: there won't be any positive cooperation in running K7 from the Ruskin side.

So what could be done?

1. BBP could dispute that ownership of the K7 remains was correctly transfered to the Ruskin Museum. Maybe the rescued parts didn't belong to the Campell family at that point, so they couldn't transfer ownership? That would make the 2006 contract invalid. The next question would who would own the rescued parts instead?

2. Assuming about half of K7 would really belong to the Ruskin Museum and the other half to the BBP, then I would assume this would block any usage of K7 "as is" until the legal dispute has come to an end. That's 5, 10 maybe 15 years from now. Maybe 15 more years of an empty Bluebird wing and 15 years of no runs of the rebuild K7. I guess one point must be clear: at least as long as Bill is alive and the legal dispute is ongoing, then K7 will not go into the Ruskin Museum.

Concerning BBP I think I asked this before: if the joint ownwership is considered a fact and if the BBP team still wants to run K7 - or should I say, something that would looks exactely like K7 - just to point you in the direction if my thinking - would it be reasonable to rebuild an excact replica of K7 using the BBP parts of the rebuild K7 and rebuilding everything else from scratch? How much would that cost? How much effort would this be? How much time would this require? And finally, would it be worth trying to run a replica instead of the original? Would it feel the same and would it serve the same purpose? Difficult questions, but I think part of the 'magic' comes from K7 beeing THE original boat (with only some spare parts).

Anyone else with better ideas? The more I think about it, the more I think point 1. becomes a more and more interesting question...

BR,
Joerg - who is still very happy and proud to have made it to Bute in 2018 to see - the original - K7 run. THAT was really cool.